Navigating Anxiety Through Functional Medicine

Welcome to the Anxiety Society Podcast.

We're your hosts, Dr.

Elizabeth Mackinbell and.

Cali Werner, both therapists and individuals that have navigated our own anxiety journeys.

Have you ever wondered how we became a society that is so defined by anxiety?

Tune in as we discuss, learn, and dive into what anxiety is, how we perpetuate it, and we can stop it.

This podcast will be real, raw and unfiltered, just like the anxiety that plagues so many of us.

We are here to push boundaries, challenge the status quo, and deep dive into topics that are sure to make you uncomfortable.

If you're ready to step outside of your comfort zone and explore the unfiltered truth that will help you change your entire relationship with anxiety and get back to living your life, you're in the right place.

This is the Anxiety Society Podcast.

We live it and we contribute to it, and together we can change it.

And there's one thing that I need from you.

Can you come through?

Welcome back to the Anxiety Society Podcast.

We haven't filmed in a couple weeks, so I'm excited to be here, recording today and refreshed.

Yes, refreshed, excited, and really looking forward to what this podcast is going to talk about, because I feel like the idea behind today is going to be a lot about kind of how do you take care of yourself in a better, healthier way.

But I hope it's not going to be extreme because I love Diet Coke and don't want to be told I can't drink it.

So we'll get there when we get there.

Yeah.

I am really in particularly excited about this episode.

I've known Dr.

Elise Cho, our guest that we have today, who I'll be introducing momentarily after we do our anxious moment for a while.

And she's helped me with a lot of female specific things that I don't know technical terms for, but I am a whole new person, thanks to you.

So, yeah, we're just so excited to have you.

And thanks for being here.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

I'm excited, too.

Perfect.

Well, we can't get going without starting off with our anxious moment.

And so Liz is going to go first because she already has one.

I actually have a couple today, but.

Well, yeah, so my anxious moment is.

It's like, so embarrassing.

But Dr.

Cho came and was like, actually, we've met.

I was like, you do look really familiar from where she's like, maybe a pageant we did together.

So.

Yes.

So maybe that counts as both of us.

Totally.

So I may or may not have done pageants.

I will tell y'all.

You can blame my sister for that.

Laura was, like, crown chasing and making me do pageants on her behalf and would just, like, dress me up, put me together.

And y'all know me, I don't like stage.

I don't like anything about the whole idea of, like, creating around, like, any of it.

So I try to block that out of my memory, but it turns out it was real and people remember it.

And you were doing it, so.

Yeah, we were.

You and Laura both doing them together?

Oh, no, no.

She did it through me.

Like, she.

Laura told me to do it and made.

I was her person, her puppet, you know?

That's amazing.

How old were you?

She's great at managing and doing.

She still don't do it herself.

I mean, I think I started when I was, like, 17 and probably did it, I don't know, 17 to 20 or so.

I just have to ask, have you learned to tell Lauren no yet?

No, no.

That's my older sister.

I have not.

A lot of us have not.

She knows that.

Okay.

My anxious moment, I think, would just be, this is such a good problem to have.

But, as you know, we have 13 puppies.

I've talked about it on the podcast before.

We found a stray.

She.

We didn't know she was pregnant, had puppies in our home.

It's been a whole adventure.

Wait, I didn't know there was.

I thought there was 11 puppies with my dogs.

We have 13.

Oh.

I was like, like, you're keeping puppies.

They're, like, adding up.

I was like, I didn't tell you.

I was like, I swear it wasn't.

13 last week, but.

Okay.

Kelly.

Yeah.

So sorry.

Nine puppies.

We have 13 dogs total in my home.

And the new problem that we're starting to have is I can't remember who I told could have a puppy.

And so now I'm starting to think that we might have overdone it because I was so terrified of having to keep one that I was like, we would be walking down the street, and Tyler would see a guy walking a dog, and he was like, oh, he probably wants a puppy.

And so let's ask him.

Yeah, just, like, asking all these people.

So you need a notepad.

I know.

You need to make a board and put pictures of all the puppies and then put the assigned names.

We did take the pictures.

We just never printed them.

But I think in your notes.

In your Apple notes.

Yeah, but what do I do for the person that connected both, like, two people for one Puppy.

Rock, paper, scissors usually suffice.

And then we can, like, send them to society.

I mean, I would just see which one actually reaches out and remembers.

That's true.

I'm thinking versus they were just being nice to fall out.

Yeah.

So I think that's what's gonna happen.

But, yeah, that's my.

How many do you think you overcommitted?

Two.

Two people for sure.

Because I counted the puppies and I distributed them, and now there's still two people that also took the puppy.

So.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Like, there's two people that aren't gonna get a dog at all that think they're gonna get a dog.

Yeah.

But I feel like somebody's gonna flake and it'll be fine.

Well, maybe you just reach out to all 11 people and say, we actually have two people who weren't able to get a dog who want one.

Or is there anyone who isn't?

Like, is there anyone who may be on the fence or waiting?

Cause two people probably would back out if you give them an out.

That's true.

That's true.

I could do also just like, first come, first serve.

Cause I want them out of the house.

And if somebody can't take it for another month.

But then what are you gonna.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh, definitely.

Cause my parents are like, well, we want one, but you just have to potty train it for us.

No, no, no.

I think you should definitely.

I think you should send a mass text to all the people and be like, okay, you've all indicated that you want a dog.

We have nine total, first come, first serve.

They have to be picked up by this date.

Please write back, confirm yes or no if you're taking one.

Yeah, I'm always good for down for, like, a good competition.

I think that's great.

Good for them.

Yeah.

All right, you're up.

I know you had one, but Liz stole it.

You get two.

That's okay.

Oh, great.

Technically, you brought that one up, so.

I was gonna say that could be mine, so it should be yours.

Yeah.

Well, I didn't really know I was gonna need an anxious moment, but I don't know.

Probably just coming here, being with you guys, I wasn't really sure what to expect.

You sent me the plan, which I was really excited about.

But like I was telling you, this is my first podcast, so.

Yeah.

Well, breaking it in.

Great speaker already.

You're making moves here, so all good things.

But, yeah, I think that we have some really cool things to dive into today, so I'm gonna Go ahead and introduce you and then we'll get jumping into the content.

So Dr.

Cho is a certified nurse midwife and has been serving women for the last 11 years.

She has a doctor of nursing practice with specialization in nurse midwifery and women's health from Baylor University.

Elise is certified in bioidentical hormone replacement therapy and she strives to help all, regardless of age of life stage, find a hormonal balance that allows them to have the best quality of life.

She believed womanhood is a beautiful thing and should be cherished.

I said believed.

You still believe that she believes currently believe that hasn't changed.

Continue to believe.

Yeah.

So I love kind of hearing about what you do and I think there's so much right now in social media, in the press, in my own family, and every group text about just like how we become healthier.

Right.

I think RFK and a lot of different things happening political wise also have just kind of put this spotlight around.

Like, what are we putting into our bodies?

What impact does it have?

How do we really make ourselves as healthy as possible?

And then also seeing the increase that we've seen in recent years in America with anxiety, with illness.

Right.

And healthcare has kind of not gotten better, unfortunately.

It's gotten worse.

Like, those are all big things that should have us saying what's going on and, and what do we do?

And so I would love to hear a little bit just about what you do and why, like, how do you.

What's your elevator pitch of like the work that you do and why somebody would want to seek out work with you.

Yeah.

So my, my elevator pitch is that I really started my business, the Hive, because I wanted a place where people could come and feel heard and seen and valued.

Like that they were important and that they could really get the care that they des.

Because I just, over the years of practicing realized that this model of care that we have that is like this in and out, 10 minute visits, I can only accomplish one thing.

I know you have three things going on, but sorry, you're gonna have to just move on and come back.

You'll have to wait another six weeks and come back.

That wasn't working.

And I also just noticed too, or picked up on and still feel that this band aiding care.

So when we have something that's wrong with us, we're just band aiding it with some type of pharmaceutical or.

I have chronic headaches and I take Tylenol every day.

I'm functional.

I go to work and I feel okay.

But hey, I'm Having to take Tylenol every day, those things are not normal.

And it bothers me that nobody is, or not nobody, but that people are not like, hey, this is abnormal.

We're all just kind of in this standard of care.

Washing machine being tossed around, and we're getting tumbled out at the end, and we still don't really feel good.

And then now there's this huge movement of, hey, we need to be more aware of what's going on in our body and, like, why we feel the way that we do and how are we going to make it different?

And so I love that about just this kind of time that we're in, because people are really just paying more attention to how they're feeling and what's causing it.

Even kids?

Even kids.

My nephew, you guys.

Oh, my gosh.

Okay, I'm going to tell you the story, but he is seven.

He's the cutest thing ever.

I love Diet Coke.

And I'm pregnant.

This is the second time.

I mean, we're.

Right.

I'm, like, pregnant with twins.

Whatever.

All weekend we went out of town.

This weekend, he kept saying, like, aunt Lizzie, why do you want soda babies?

And I was like, brody, what are you talking about?

You know where that every time I.

Drink a Diet Coke, he'd be like, you're going to have a soda baby?

Is that what you're choosing?

And I'd be like, okay, like, they're not going to be a soda baby.

And he's like, that is so bad for you.

You know?

And then he'll be like, does this have red D40 or not?

And I'm like, brody, I don't know.

Let's check the label.

But it's cute.

But it's also like, wow, we never.

Growing up, no one ever talked about that.

I was eating Twix cereal and Lucky Charms every day, and my parents didn't think about the fact that what is being put in this now and how different is it than what they ate growing up?

Yeah.

Or it was a treat to get a kid cuisine.

Totally.

All the little things.

And my mom cooked it with the plastic right on top.

It was a thing.

Right.

We were all dousing ourselves in cucumber melon and just living our best life.

And now we can't figure out why we all have hormone dysfunction.

What's happening?

Hormone dysfunction and all these issues and.

Yeah, yeah.

I was just gonna say I found you because that story that you shared of being so frustrated is what I was going through in my own journey.

Just.

I've shared once in an anxious moment about a facial hair problem that I was having.

And I would pluck avidly and I just kind of thought, okay, this must be normal for me, because every doctor I would go to would just say, well, your only option is really birth control.

And it was so infuriating because I knew that there was more going on.

And you gave me more than that 15 minutes and helped me kind of unfold.

And also did just extensive blood work that helped me figure out deficiencies that could clearly just be read from simple blood work and time spent with someone.

And I know the way that our medical field is set up is not everybody can spend that time.

So it's not throwing any jabs, but it is super frustrating.

And so let's kind of hop in and talk about the difference between the way you practice medicine, maybe compared to a traditional PCP or doctor, and like, would you consider yourself someone who engages in functional medicine?

And like, how do you, how do you describe that?

Because I think there are a lot of misbeliefs or conceptions that functional medicine means.

Like it's like woo, woo.

And like you're not doing blood work and it's not science based at all.

Right.

But really I think there is a middle ground.

Yeah.

So what I say about myself is I practice in a functional style of medicine.

I still practice traditional Western medicine if I need to.

I still prescribe medications if I need to do that.

It is something that I try to avoid or like help the system work more effectively.

But there comes a time and a place where we do need that.

And so I absolutely don't discount it.

I think there's for sure a place still.

And so the difference between functional medicine and western style medicine is the way that things are viewed in functional medicine is really on this time continuum.

And so we're looking at things through this very wide lens.

We're looking to see like, what has happened over time and when did your problems really begin to develop.

And so like in, in an initial appointment, it's, I spend a lot of time talking to my clients about what's happened to you, even from when you first started your cycle.

And people are like, I'm coming to you because I'm growing hair on my face.

Like me starting my period when I was 11 or 12 years old.

Doesn't matter.

But it really does matter because we're looking at things over a long cycle span of time to try to figure out when the dysfunction really originated and what the root of it is.

Yeah.

So can you explain to me what the microbiome is.

It's a word that everybody uses that I'm like, oh, what does this mean?

And, like, hot word.

We have a bunch of different microbiomes.

We have microbiome on our skin, but the microbiome probably that you're referring to is our gut microbiome.

And so we have little tiny bugs that live inside of our gut.

Large intestine in our stomach.

Large intestine, small intestine.

And they make.

That's so disgusting.

They're good for you.

They're good.

There's bugs in our yogurt, right?

There is.

Yeah.

That is also so disgusting.

She's like.

And I'm no longer even gonna know that.

Yeah.

Some things are better left unknown.

But we have, like, good bugs, and we have bad bugs.

And so our good bugs, the ones that keep us normal, healthy, functioning, like, feeling well, they have to be organized in a specific ratio, and they have to all be able to communicate with each other and work really effectively.

And most of time, we have a lot of dysbiosis, which just means those good bugs are really unorganized and dysfunctional.

They're not working well.

They're not communicating with one another.

And then we begin to develop a lot of issues, like bloating after every single meal, or our hair starts falling out, or we feel really fatigued after eating lunch every single day.

And everybody's like, yeah, it's fine.

I'm 30.

This is just what happens.

And, you know, that's the piece.

Like, this is just what happens.

The amount of times that I've told myself that and learned from working with you that it actually didn't have to be that way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's crazy to me that, you know, I see so many women, and they come in and they're like, well, I'm 40.

And, like, this is clearly just what 40 is like.

And I'm like, well, no, it doesn't have to be.

Yeah, 40.

I remember after my second.

I think it was after Grace was born, but it might have been Olivia.

I was so tired, and I was like, something is off.

Like, this is not normal.

Like, it wasn't.

It was past breastfeeding phase.

So, like, I was sleeping fine.

It wasn't.

Had anything to do with that.

And I went to my pcp and she just did blood work, and she's like, fine.

This is just called, like, being a new mom.

And I remember being like, that's so A, invalidating.

But B, like, no, it isn't.

Like, I.

I know what being busy, but like there's something else going on.

I don't know that I ever addressed it or figured it out.

But that's later.

After this pregnancy.

Yeah.

Swap information.

I brought some cards.

Schedule an appointment.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I think another thing that is that I feel like I've seen in the last five years is when we were talking about things that are woo woo.

I feel like 10 years ago you'd hear microbiome and you'd be like, no, that's ridiculous.

But now we're actually talking about it and like I just went to a lunch and learned for a mental health networking event and a doctor came and talked about the microbiome for mental health.

And I was like, this is so cool in a setting that this never would have happened in 10 years ago.

So things are changing for the better.

For sure.

Yeah.

I just had a client that is, you know, being seen at a major hospital system in the area.

She's getting treatment for some cancer and she was like, they talked to me about doing some gut health testing and.

I was like, yes, they did.

That's amazing.

So, I mean, things are really changing, but change in medicine is slow.

It's really slow.

Yeah.

Yeah, it is.

Well.

And I feel like even slower.

There's definitely physical things that we're addressing now with the gut microbiome, but I think people are way more hesitant when it comes to mental health to even like try to look at that.

And so I'd love to just, if you have any specific cases that come to mind or instances where you really recognized a lot of physical things were off and that was leading to stress, anxiety, just some mental health struggles.

Yeah.

Um, I think the probably most common or most relatable thing is I have a lot of clients that have very severe PMS or pmdd.

So they have really significant mood changes prior to starting their cycle.

And this has been going on for years and years and years since they started their cycle originally.

And you know, I mean, when we're teens, like our parents, you know, just like that kid Cuisine, they're like, oh, bless her heart, she's a teenager, she's really emotional.

And then we get into our 20s and our 30s and these, I mean, I'm like, patients that are suicidal even to the point of being suicidal prior to starting their cycle, and they just are like praying that they will start their cycle so that those feelings will go away.

And again, those things are not normal.

It's not normal to have significant mood changes prior to starting your cycle or feel like your entire mood or disposition changes.

And I mean, those things are huge red flags for me.

And so a lot of our time is spent around gut health.

Yeah.

Around a lot of the stuff around hormone dysfunction.

So it's very.

The thing that I think is difficult for a lot of people to understand is it's not isolated.

Right.

Like, our gut doesn't equal this or this doesn't equal that.

And so they're all so intertwined.

It's like this giant tumbleweed.

And so a lot of times I'm talking to somebody about their gut health and they're like, I'm here for hormones or skin dysfunction, and we start talking about gut stuff or whatever, and everybody's like, okay, but I just want to feel better.

I'm like, okay, but it's so intertwined.

And so we really have to pick it apart piece by piece and look underneath those layers of the onion so that we can try to really figure out the what's what.

Well, and I think too, in the past, we've been so used to having specialists, like, I'm going to go to this specialist to talk about this specific thing.

But we're finding, at least in more podcasts that I'm listening to now, there's people disclosing how important it is to have somebody that is trained on the full.

I keep wanting to say microbiome, but the body.

Yeah, the full.

Like all of the things.

And I think when you.

For physical health, all of it, like, it's all intertwined.

Right.

And so if our physical health is in a poor state, like, let's say we have a lot of nutritional deficiencies, or our hormones are out of whack and our cycle's not normal, or our gut's dysfunctional, we have chronic constipation or oscillate between constipation and diarrhea or whatever's going on, like really extreme symptoms that we've really worked ourselves up and we're like, this is normal.

Those are the clients that are predisposed to having anxiety and depression that overshadows their entire life because it's truly affecting the way that the brain's functioning or its ability to function.

It's not like a one on one.

This equals this.

Right?

Right.

And you can get specialized care for mental health, which is why we're mental health clinicians.

And there's a time and a place for that, especially if it's completely debilitating, which is often the case.

Right.

Or even if it's not, even if it's affecting, you know, just your day to day, like just a little.

A little bit in the background noise sometimes it's.

So that little bit of noise affects the way that you're able to function, even if it's not like you're staying in bed all day.

I mean, there's so.

We have so much need.

The brain is so intricate, and there's such a need for us to be able to focus on that in conjunction with all of the other parts.

Right, right.

And the importance of collaboration between.

So I guess a question I have.

Because it does.

I mean, I'm not sure if it's gotten worse or if we are just talking about it more.

Right.

It's kind of one of those things.

Maybe both are true.

What do you think are some of the big differences between maybe when, like, the baby boomers were raised to nowadays, as far as, like, changes in either the way we eat, what we are consuming, what we're putting in our body.

Cell phones and earpods to ears.

Right.

All.

All the above.

That's a really.

That's a hard question to answer.

I mean, I definitely think there's been a huge change.

My.

So my staple is, like, we have to go back to the way that our ancestors were living.

And that sounds super extreme.

And although I would love to, like, live on a farm somewhere with a.

A thousand chickens and just walk around barefooted.

Homestead.

Homestead.

Yeah, we talk about it a lot.

I think we were joking about that the other day, but, you know, I mean, I would love to do that, but we can't.

Right.

But I truly think that we've gotten so far away from the way that we were designed to live our life.

We have so much information input.

It's chronic.

And, like, the majority of it is not positive at all.

So we have this very underlying increased cortisol, constant panic, basically.

Like, we think, oh my gosh, XYZ is gonna happen, or, like, the world's gonna end tomorrow, or.

I mean, all of the input is just really negative.

And so I think that truly affects the way that we're able to function and kind of live.

I also think, like, our diet is just.

No, it's just not good.

We live in this world of convenience.

We are in and out, we're fast.

We don't sit down to eat.

We.

We are rushed.

We're not eating breakfast.

We don't nourish ourselves.

Like it's some kind of weird award that we all have for ourselves.

I made it through the workday eating one cube of cheese.

And an Olipop, like, you know, and then I.

We get home and we're like, we're starving.

And people are like, why are you grumpy?

Oh, my blood sugar is super low right now.

So I think just all of it for sure, is affecting the way that we're, you know, moving forward in our lives.

But I think, you know, boomers really lived in a time that was more.

More.

They.

They woke up when the sun was up, they came home inside, tv, lights off.

You know, I mean, if you weren't.

Having a home cooked meal, what's wrong with you?

Right?

Yeah.

And I mean, you know, there wasn't.

The same options to not have home because.

Right.

A cost of eating out.

But there weren't restaurants the way there are now.

There wasn't fast food available the way there is now.

Or I mean, like, I hear all, like, jokes.

You know, my parents and grandparents.

Oh, we had to be home by the time the streetlights came on.

I'm like, well, there's actually something to that.

Yeah, no, yeah.

And I think, like, one thing my mom will say is she's like, well, I ate that growing up and we're just fine.

And I'm like, you actually didn't eat this growing up?

Because if you look at the ingredients in bread that you ate growing up versus bread that we would eat growing.

Up, even if it's the same brand.

Same brand.

Oh, it's totally different.

Like, I don't know if y'all have seen any of those photos of, like, even McDonald's, but cereals, like, those sort of things of like, what it was versus what it is or even what it is in America versus what it is somewhere else.

It's mind boggling.

And you're just, why are they doing this to us?

Right?

And so, like, you know, organic foods didn't come around until the late 90s.

And so this is a thing that I, like, have this, this constant conversation with my grandfather, who's in his mid-80s.

He's like, oh, that organic stuff, it's not real.

And I'm like, well, actually, let me tell you why it's real, because we didn't have to have that.

That was not like a consistent.

We weren't spraying all of this on our food.

You weren't getting organic.

It just wasn't labeled as that when you grew it.

And then all of a sudden it snowballed into this.

This huge thing.

And so now everything is completely modified in what we're putting in our.

In our bodies and so expensive.

If you don't get it modifies.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, for sure.

Good quality farm fresh eggs if you want them from the farm.

Or like 12 bucks.

Yeah, it's crazy.

And if you see them, they're so different.

Right.

Like the yolk where you're like, this is so weird, you know?

Yeah, no, it's sad.

Well, I think too, the, the environment.

Right.

So this morning I wanted eggs for breakfast and I didn't have time because I'm taking care of 13 dogs and like, wanted to do a little bitty workout before.

And so, yeah, I didn't make the time.

And so I had a cup of yogurt that was like, probably pretty processed with some cereal thrown into it.

And that was my breakfast.

And so I think it's really hard with the environment we live in.

Even if we want to make those changes to find out the resources to.

Make them, there's no clean options, like, readily available.

Well, and I think that, you know, maybe we all do it to ourselves, but also it's the time, you know, Like, I would love.

Like, my husband and I talk about this all the time.

Like, Matt's a great cook and he loves to cook, but we don't have time to cook.

Like, he leaves our house before 7.

He gets home between 6 and 7.

Our kids have already eaten dinner and like before he gets home and they eat breakfast after he leaves.

Like, when would he cook for them?

You know?

And I know we could make it a priority, but it's.

It's everything else going on.

It just does feel like.

It feels like there's this combination of like, we kind of all know what we should do to do better, but how do we find the time to do that, you know?

And I think the work life balance and the commitments and the way that that has shifted too, over the years has just made a big change.

Yeah, it's really difficult to find the time to do all the self care.

Yeah.

Well, and there's.

There are behavior changes you can make.

Like, I remember the whole reason that my husband and I now have alarm clocks by our beds is because you were telling me about my cortisol levels and how I could get those down by not checking my phone first thing when I get up in the morning.

And what's wild is I did notice a little bit of a difference with just having the alarm clock by my bed.

It was a habit that I had to break, which is the hardest thing.

Yeah, the hardest part.

But now I don't wake up first thing in the morning.

Alarm goes off and I pick up and open Instagram.

Or if I do, I catch myself like, wait, what are you doing?

Whereas before, I was on autopilot.

And so, so many of these things take a little bit of discipline, but just more so practice.

Yeah, they're not hard things.

That's the thing.

Like, going back to the basics, it's not difficult.

It's just the habitual pattern that we've developed.

It feels weird.

So we are like, oh, this is.

I'm doing something weird.

I'm going against the grain.

Well, and I think we usually want to take the easy route out of.

Oh, it's not making that big of a difference.

Like, it's not that big of a deal.

Or we find some kind of article or social media post that validates against it.

But I would love to just know some of those main staples, like the one that you shared with me about Alarm Clock by the Bed, that would be really good for general listeners caught up in the hustle and bustle.

So before we jump into that, can y'all tell me how I can convince Matt to do that?

Like, just, Alarm Clock one is perfect.

So Matt is somebody who gets kind of addicted to, like, one thing at a time.

So, like, he gave up social media a while ago.

Cause it was bad.

And then he started getting on, like.

YouTube shorts, and he found a new fix.

Oh, my gosh, you guys.

And he'd be like, I've just.

And he's like, this is such a waste of my brain energy.

I hate this.

And he hate it.

But he gets pulled in.

And then, like, two weeks ago, he was like, I redownloaded the chess app.

And I was like, oh, boy.

And so, because I knew what that meant, which is that he's going to be on chess app 24, which he is like, he can't help it.

And if he's, like, started a chess game, it is not, like, until he finishes, there's no interruption.

But, like, he knows it's not good for him.

Like, he knows it distracts him.

He knows that it's, you know, and he enjoys it.

Right.

So it's.

It's this hard.

But how do you try to convince or help somebody understand that, Yes, I know you enjoy that.

And it's actually really impacting your sleep or it's really impacting your relationships or whatever it might be.

It's not detrimental chess for us.

But I'm just saying, that example, I think that part of the struggle with functional medicine are the people that are on the cusp.

They're like, should I?

Should I not?

I don't know.

Functional medicine takes commitment, and it is difficult.

You are in it for the long haul.

There's not a quick fix, and more times than not, there is failure mixed into there.

And you're gonna be like, oh, I was doing so great.

Now I had a backslide.

And so I think part of that is just truly having to make the decision to, okay, I'm gonna do it.

I'm gonna.

I'm committed to it.

Yeah.

For my clients that are really strug, you know, habit changes.

Because I.

I do say that's the hardest part.

I try to give them little tips, like, hey, just set an alarm.

You might play the.

You might play a chess app for an hour before you go to bed.

But, like, but not once the babies come.

Yeah.

Or maybe no hours or minutes of chess app.

Let's set a calendar reminder.

But, you know, maybe setting an alarm on your phone that, like, at 8:30, I'm getting off my phone, like, that gives you time to still do it, but you have that.

Okay, this is a cutoff.

Or I love the idea of your bed.

Bedroom, or whatever it is, is a place where you don't retreat to your phone if you know that's a place that you use it more often.

If Matt's in the living room on his phone playing chess, who cares?

That doesn't bother me, but it usually bothers me at night because he's always tired.

And I'm like, you're tired because you're up till one in the morning, either on a huge short or finding guess.

When you could have gone to sleep or.

I often will encourage people to, like, find another human connection to refill that.

And so, you know, like, playing that.

Like, maybe finding a time that you guys can do it together or something.

Yeah.

Oh, good Christmas gift idea.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then it's like a reestablishment of your connection.

He's still getting to do something that he really likes, and you're spending time with him.

Have you guys heard of the.

I think it's called the phone box.

It's like this box that locks, and when it beeps, you have to put your phone in it.

Oh, I feel like.

I feel like I someone.

I saw this recently on Instagram, but I don't know if it was that or it's just.

It's an app you can download on your phone too, where it locks you out during certain hours.

No, this is like a physical box.

But my anxiety is the clinic.

Like, I don't mind not having my phone when I'm with my kids.

I actually rarely have my phone on me.

Like, I usually lose it because I don't even know where I left it.

It's more just that if the clinic needs us, yes, I need to be available, you know, so that's why I sleep with my phone next to me, is because I need to be able to wake up if there's an emergency.

Like, we're open 24 hours, and sometimes we do have to respond.

But otherwise, even when you're on call.

Right.

Even when I'm not on call, they still call me, you know?

I know.

I just feel like that's such a big mental toll to take, but it's not.

It's not like it's.

I don't get anxious about it because I just, like, know that I'm available.

But it is.

It's.

It's still not healthy because you feel like you can't totally detach.

You can't totally turn it off.

There's no recouping, like, being able to totally turn it off.

I still remember 2021 Belize trip, and there was no social media, no access to anything.

And I came back more refreshed than I've been in the last.

This is why we should do a silent retreat.

Yes.

Going back to the motivation and really getting to a place where you're willing to change it.

I remember when I knew something was wrong with my stomach.

Like, all through college, I knew that there was some kind of dietary restriction that I probably would need to do.

So I wasn't willing to fix it until a couple years ago.

It got so bad where I was getting rashes on my face, and I was so uncomfortable after every meal that I ate.

And then I finally was willing to say, okay, I can't handle it anymore.

And so I think we see this in the mental health field too, sometimes.

Yeah, Sometimes people aren't willing to do the work until you hit that rock bottom, and then you see how good you can feel.

And now I would never give that away again.

So gluten was a hard one, but I feel like in the city of Houston, it hasn't been so bad.

So I guess that's a question I have, because I feel like I'll talk about Matt more, because why not?

But Matt definitely has an intolerance to something, and he's never really been able to figure it out.

Right.

He's kind of like, cut out some stuff and others, and we think it's like gluten, but it tends to be more like fried gluten, if that makes sense.

Like, that's what really gets him.

But then it sometimes will just be other random things, like he's out for like a day.

Like, it's, it's.

It feels horrible.

Right.

He hates it.

What is.

Like, what does it look like if someone came to you and they're like, yes, I know I have some gut health issues and I know, like, this is when they appear.

It sounds like you're going to start with really collecting history of, like, how long has this been happening?

What does it look like?

All of the above.

And then what it's.

And can I add one question to that?

Sure.

And then when it's.

Your stomach's already inflamed, isn't it that.

That anything else can add to the inflammation so you can't really pinpoint what it is?

Yeah, that can happen for sure.

I mean, I think what is the process looks like collecting history, physical, trying to figure out what is exacerbating this, et cetera, et cetera.

Often I'll encourage people to keep some type of diet log so that we can see, like, hey, I.

I ate whatever and I was fine, but then when I ate this, I ate strawberries every single morning.

But all of a sudden on Tuesday, they bothered me or whatever's going on.

And so we'll do a dialogue.

We do very comprehensive labs which are.

Looking at way more than what a typical panel does.

Yes.

So many, many labs.

Everybody always jokes, oh, my gosh, I didn't know if I had any.

Was it going to have any more blood left when the phlebotomist gets done?

But, but so doing very comprehensive labs, so looking at vitamins and minerals and a lot of our hormonal precursors and hormone function, and we do a lot of inflammatory factors and a bunch of different things to kind of culminate where they're at right now.

And then I think it's just a matter of having a conversation with them and saying, how do you feel?

Does it feel too overwhelming?

Do you feel like you're ready to make the change?

I mean, I can go into an appointment and be like, oh, we need to do all of these things, and that approach is not going to work.

They're not willing to waste of our muscles.

But also, it's so overwhelming.

It's overwhelming to even just get your labs back a lot of times.

And so, you know, part of my job is to make it feel like it's not so overwhelming.

Like, yes, there's so much information, and we're learning so much stuff about ourselves, but just doing it a little bit by a little bit.

So we do labs and then talking to them.

You know, do they want to do some gut health testing?

Do they want to talk about doing inflammatory testing, like.

Like, food triggers, basically, so that we can figure out, hey, these things are bothering us.

That doesn't mean that it's an allergy.

It just means that it's irritating something in the gut.

It's creating an inflammatory, like, inflammatory reaction.

And then from there, we can move forward and say, okay, now we need to remove these things.

We need to heal the gut.

We need to give our body the chance to come out of this chronic inflammatory setting so that our system can kind of revamp and recoup, because we are designed to replenish ourselves, recuperate, but we don't.

Often.

Don't give us a break to do that.

Right.

And one of our clinicians, Ryan, he always talks about how you can heal your gut.

And I hate to keep using my own example, but this is my own personal experience.

And when I wasn't eliminating gluten, tomatoes, or anything acidic was killing me.

My tongue would swell.

All of these things would happen.

And when I finally figured out I was celiac and I cut out gluten, that stuff doesn't bother me anymore.

And so I know it's different every.

I just say that to say, like.

The puzzles, you never know the impact.

Yeah.

It's so complex.

And so I have a question.

So I have a friend who.

They have this theory, but they feel like they've been losing more hair lately.

Like, they've started to have some hair loss.

And they were also like.

But I also, like, just.

You know, the only change I've made over the past couple months is I started a new multivitamin.

And I feel like these vitamins are doing this to me.

And I was just cur.

Curious, can that happen?

Can this.

I think sometimes we have these ideas of, like, we're gonna help ourselves, but we don't actually know what we're doing.

So we're just buying random things that either get sold to us on Instagram or we see as an ad and we're taking it.

And now all of a sudden, it's like, hey, I feel like I'm getting worse, not better, right?

Yeah.

So that is one of my soapboxes for sure.

Blind supplementation can be extremely dangerous and really detrimental for the system.

It's not dangerous to the point where you're gonna, like, you know, hurt yourself or injure life or anything like that.

It just is dangerous in the fact that you don't know really what your body needs.

And the marketing and the ability for us to be like, hey, I wanna feel better, I wanna help myself is so great.

And so many people are just really desperate and they're like, golly, I just wanna feel better.

Like, my hair's falling out, my nails are really thin, my skin's not as clear as I would like for it to be.

I just want it to be better.

And I don't know, we can think it in and then poof, it shows up on our phone.

And then these vitamins are like, you need this so that you can feel better.

We buy them and then all of a sudden we start not feeling well.

And so, yeah, that's absolutely something that can happen because our system, you know, we have so many genetic predispositions and our genetics are what make us be who we are, but our lifestyle is what is contributing to those genetics getting turned on or turned off.

And so taking the vitamin can all of a sudden initiate one of our genes to be flicked on.

And all of a sudden we're not able to methylate anymore.

So we don't convert our vitamins into a usable form for our system and we overwhelm the system, creating a lot of inflammatory response.

And then all of a sudden our hair starts falling out.

Yeah, I think that's so important because it reminds me a lot of even our field, right, where so many folks are googling how to address anxiety, how to address ocd, and they're trying these quick fixes, right, so to say, and, and not only is it not helping, but it sometimes becomes like a bit of a placebo at first, but then it isn't helping.

But then they're bought into it because they've.

Someone's told them that, right?

They've committed to it.

We had this, I forgot the guy's name, but he was really well known author that was on social media, has a huge following and promoting like celery juice cleanses is going to cure ocd, you know, and it's so detrimental to our field because you see so many people who are like, don't know what evidence based treatment is.

And so of course they're going to try anything they can, but then they don't get better.

So then they think something's wrong with me, whatever, you know.

But I think that's just such an important piece that, yes, there's things we can do to take care of ourselves.

But you need to actually know what's wrong first and you need to be doing the right things because guessing at it and this blind guessing often isn't going to get you where you want to be.

Right.

I think that's so interesting about both of our jobs because for a while I was thinking, gosh, I feel so bad for you because you have to work with clients to get them to even consider the buy in of long term work because the quick fixes are being thrown all the time.

But that's also the same in our field.

We deal with that every day.

Every day, Callie, we're in the same boat.

Yeah.

Smoking marijuana makes me less anxious.

Like, oh, really?

What happens after?

Well, I'm a lot worse and my thoughts get worse.

Okay, so like, is it actually working?

No, it feels like in that moment it's working, but it is not.

It's actually making anxiety worse oftentimes.

So I have to ask then, your insights on how mental health clinicians can collaborate with, with people in the field of functional practice in a way that's most effective for clients.

I think just knowing signs and symptoms to be looking for is really important.

And so again, going back to not accepting societal norms.

So if somebody's like, well, this is normal, this is normal, this is normal, trying to expand that thought horizon and being like, well, I mean, that's probably not super normal.

And so just kind of trying to learn to recognize the things that are not, not necessarily normal.

You know, big mood swings, menstrual cycle changes, men needing testosterone replacement, not being able to build muscle, chronic fatigue, brain fog.

All of the things that you guys, I'm sure, hear about all the time.

And knowing that like the client that's really hurting, that you feel like, you know, we're doing treatment and they're getting better.

Like maybe their anxiety or their OCD seems more manageable for them, but for whatever reason, they, they still can't get out of bed in the morning.

Like, those things are not normal.

And so then knowing when to collaborate and reach out and then also reassuring the client too that like, hey, you can, this can be better.

Like, this doesn't have to be your life.

Because I think something that, you know, I'm extremely passionate about what I do, which I know you guys are too.

And so I think that's really where we have, have just such a, such a special hold on our field is like, we want to, like, we really want to help.

It's not just like, well, I show up to work and I Do my job and I leave at the end of the day.

No, like, I.

When I say I want you to be well, like, I want you to be well.

I.

I always joke, like, I take my people home with me at night, and I'm like, I wonder how they're doing right now, you know, and so just kind of like, helping them along the way so that they can.

They can be successful.

How much does this impact, for a lot of folks, fertility and, you know, I mean, obviously I think about, like, fertility, and then I also, like, match that with postpartum and that sort of thing.

Yeah.

So.

Because I feel like nobody talks about hormones, right?

They don't.

It's crazy.

Like, when I was pumping with my first two kids, it had a significant, like, depressive impact on me.

The first 10 minutes of, like, letdown, and no one warned me about it.

And I remember being in mental health, being able to, like, talk about it myself, and then talking to my clinicians and a couple people being like, oh, that's actually super normal.

But it's like, why didn't anyone warn me?

I've never even heard of that.

A normal feeling versus I sat there and would get this, like, wave of depression that would, like, literally, like, hit you like a pound of bricks.

So anyway, how.

I guess my question is, like, how much does it play into it and how can we get people to better understand the impact that would have?

It would have, I guess not just, I mean, fertility and postpartum, but even thinking about, like, like puberty in adolescence.

Right.

So, I mean, all.

All of our.

Or our hormonal function and impacts that our hormones have on our system are driven by, you know, something else, a deeper root of the way that we're metabolizing or not metabolizing what's happening inside of our body.

And so, you know, hormone dysfunction, microbiome dysfunction heavily can impact fertility and our ability to get pregnant, maintain a pregnancy, and then feel normal after our babies are born, feel like ourselves.

So many women are like, well, I had my.

You just told me that a minute ago.

Like, I had my baby and then I didn't feel like myself.

Something was off, but we're not able to put our finger on it.

And so we're just, like, struggling to figure out.

And then we get in that cycle of, like, being told by providers, well, it's fine.

This is young motherhood.

And so there's a way for us to fix that and feel better.

For sure, it doesn't have to be like that.

But what's happening at the base.

Base layer of our system is absolutely gonna affect all of our hormonal function for men and women.

Yeah.

Which makes sense.

It's just the more you say it out loud, you kind of are, like, baffled that other providers aren't talking about that, that nobody is talking about.

Here's what to expect, but also here's some things we can do, and here's what wouldn't be as normal, and here's what you should be.

It's so difficult.

I mean, hormones are extremely complex and they have so many precursors and so many, like, pieces of the puzzle that fit in to make them what they are.

And, you know, I mean, hormonal function is discussed in school.

It was discussed in school when I was doing school.

But the things that I learned about after school, whenever I decided, like, this is the track that I'm going to go on, those things were just scratched at the surface.

And so it's so much like, like digging and research and putting those things into practice and truly learning to listen to our clients, which we're taught in school.

Just like you guys, you sit here and we're talking about all the things and this is what we're doing.

And then all of a sudden you get out in the real world and you're like, hold on, wait, what?

And so I think it's just a matter of looking at it at an overall lens, but knowing that hormones are a specialty that is difficult to decipher for sure.

Yeah.

So I want to just say that I love this conversation because I think it's so important for us to really be thinking about the whole picture.

And it's really no different for mental health.

I was doing a pre admission call today.

We do these every time someone's going to come to our clinic.

We do this pre admission call where we'll touch base with them.

And the patient was talking about how she had been in another program and while she had really worked on her ocd, nobody really worked a lot on, like, trauma or depression and other stuff.

And so I talked a lot about how we are very different in that approach.

Number one, we're small enough that we can give individualized attention and care.

Right.

Like you talked about earlier, there's a big difference in a provider only being able to spend 10 minutes with you versus being able to spend 30, 40, you know, an hour of dedicated time with you.

But I think that it is such a disservice for us to look at individuals in these silos, you know, and even though we do specialty Mental health care.

Right.

We specialize in anxiety disorders.

That's our bread and butter.

What outcomes would I have with my patients if I didn't understand their full mental health picture and everything that was going on?

And I.

That doesn't mean I do everything.

Everything.

Right.

If someone has a substance use disorder, like, they are working concurrently with a substance use provider, and we're doing the anxiety or OCD or trauma treatment because that's our specialty, and they're doing their work, but we're treating the whole person.

And I think that our system has become, like, I'm a huge advocate for specialty care, but what I'm not an advocate for is, like, siloed care.

Is that just because you are a specialist doesn't mean you shouldn't make sure the patient is getting treated across the board and holistically and with everything going on.

Because I can't treat.

Treat.

If someone has trauma and OCD and depression, I can't treat OCD and ignore the trauma and depression and think, they're going to be great.

Like, I can't treat this and then, oh, go treat that.

Like, no, they actually need to be treated together.

And we need to understand how they're impacting one another.

And the body is no different than the brain in that, for sure.

I mean, we have to look at that whole picture.

And I think, like, you know, knowing when to refer out is such a gift, so.

And being willing to.

Right, yeah.

So both are true, for sure.

You know, I had some experiences very early on in my career, and I was like, oh, okay, well, so we need to know what we don't know.

And then we need to be able to get this client to somewhere where they have the person that does know, because there is somebody, there's always somebody that's gonna know.

My dad just had open heart surgery, so I think about, like, if you're seeing someone with a cardiac problem, you're not gonna, like, pretend to be a cardiologist and, like, let me repair your valve.

It's like, you know, it's like, not.

Like, I will be quickly.

You want to work with that person, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's it.

I think that's part of our.

Part of the thing that we struggle with here is, you know, in our.

In our brains, we're like, oh, well, like, I just.

I have to just go see my OB GYN when I'm in my childbearing years.

And like, that's.

I just go see my OB gyn.

I get my.

Well, woman.

I'm Good.

I don't need to do anything else.

And then they start getting like to become in this stage of hormonal changes when they're perimenopausal or become post menopausal.

And then all of a sudden, they're talking to their ob GYN who has extreme experience in childbearing years, birth, postpartum.

Ish.

And then they're asking this practitioner who is extremely knowledgeable, who's a surgeon.

Okay, well, what about my hormones now?

And most OB GYNs?

I mean, I'm not speaking for everybody, but most OB GYNs are like, well, yeah, we can.

Either they're on one side of the fence or the other.

We can start you on hormones, or you need to find somebody else to do hormonal care.

Or the other outlier is like, well, you'll be fine.

Just deal with the symptoms.

But you're asking, give it time.

I feel like I hear that a lot.

It'll stabilize.

Yeah, but you're asking somebody that has so much knowledge about the childbearing years, like, okay, well, what now?

And I'm not discounting their knowledge into the post puzzle.

Puzzle.

They know what they know, and they don't know what they don't know.

Sure.

Yeah.

I mean, if we needed to have a C section, like, that's who I want to do it.

I don't want the cardiologist to do it.

I want to use the person that we need to use.

But also just kind of taking a step back and being able to look at that whole picture.

I always think, too, you can't be an expert in everything.

No.

Yeah.

And so if you really want to be good at what you do, you have to be willing to give the people that aren't in that field to others so that you can be good at what you do.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

We can only do what we can.

Yeah.

Well, I love the reminder and I love today and our focus on really, like, whether you're treating the body or the brain, it doesn't matter.

It's all the same.

You have to treat everything.

Like, we can't do treatment in silos.

At the same time, you want to make sure you're getting the treatment you need from the specialist who can provide that.

Right.

And, like, I think that you're very clear about.

Here's what I feel like I can do.

And, like, the big picture, I can understand that would be my specialty.

Doesn't mean I can replace cardiology.

Doesn't mean I can replace OCD treatment.

But we also can work together and.

Understand collaboration is a huge gift.

Love that.

And I've already thought of, like, 10 people I'm going to send your info to.

So would love for you to just share, like, how do people find you?

How do people get in touch and who do you serve?

Are you just in Houston, like, give us that info?

Yeah.

So I own the hive.

We are located in Clear Lake, just southeast of Houston.

Our website's hivewomenswellness.com if you're interested in being a client, then you can get information off of the website.

You can call our office.

Office.

Our numbers on the website.

We do see people all over Texas.

We do telehealth.

I do have some clients that you know are interested in working with us that are not in Texas.

I do.

I will see clients outside of Texas.

I don't prescribe medications outside of the state of Texas.

But yes, if you have questions or if you need help finding a provider and you're really not sure sure where to start, that is also, I try to, you know, help point you in the right direction.

So.

Awesome.

When you said you can find us, I thought you were gonna say by going to Cali, because I like, preferred probably 20.

You can find us going to Cali.

And I always think I like, message her.

Do you still have an opening?

Do you still have.

Because I've sent some.

Yes, we.

I just hired two new nurse practitioners, so we have four providers now.

So.

Yes.

Well, I'm gonna book my appointment after the babies come because I feel like I need to.

I need to get through that before I make any big changes anyways.

But it's been awesome.

Well, thank you so much for joining.

I know that the listeners are gonna love just hear the reminder that, you know, your body is a complex system and you really need to figure out everything that's going on or going wrong within that system to make big change.

You can't just target one thing at a time.

Yeah.

Well, I appreciate you guys having me.

Thanks for being here.

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